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#1 2007-11-01 19:47:30

gareth
Member
Registered: 2007-06-28
Posts: 50

MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

Hi all, I've mentioned this in a previous post and a few of you said you had TimeMachine running okay with the DNS-323.
How did you actually manage to add it as a backup disk? When I turn time machine on, it asks me to select a backup disk and the selection box is empty even though in Finder I can see the DNS-323 volumes.

Thanks,
Gareth.

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#2 2007-11-02 05:52:45

zero
Member
Registered: 2007-03-04
Posts: 17

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

the share (SMB, AFP, whatever) has to contain a dot-file named your eth0 MAC address (regardless of how you're connecting to the share).  this file contains a string that's the encrypted version of your volume name.  i haven't reversed this, so the easy way to make this is mount an external USB/Firewire drive with the name of the intended network share, select it as a time machine drive (then turn off time machine to prevent an actual backup) and copy that dot file over to the share's root.

the share must also have the ".com.apple.timemachine.supported" file in it's root.  easily created at the command line with touch. 

permissions don't seem to matter as long as the user can read them both.  also, your initial backup is going to be predictably slow depending on network throughput and backup size.   i haven't had much road-time with incremental backup loads/impact, but a cable attached to my laptop is not my future.  i want time machine to continue backing up whenever it discovers my NAS box on the network.

cheers,

.zero

Last edited by zero (2007-11-02 06:13:05)

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#3 2007-11-05 00:03:50

cybermike
Member
Registered: 2007-09-09
Posts: 18

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

It is easy to add NAS Devices as backup Devices for Timemachine:

Start the terminal app on the mac where You want to use Timemachine
Enter the following in Terminal: defaults write com.apple.systempreferences TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1

After that You will see all possible networkshares in Timemachine (and You can also use them). It is working great, Timemachine first creates a full backup and then every hour one incremental backup for 24 hours and then one backup each day, one per week and one per month. Great piece of software :-)

Michael

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#4 2007-11-05 16:36:55

Focher
Member
Registered: 2007-05-23
Posts: 35

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

That is great information and very much appreciated.

Any idea if you can use Time Machine to backup the NAS itself? I happen to have a second DNS-323 and would love to use Time Machine to keep my first one backed up to the second.

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#5 2007-11-05 17:28:14

frodo
Member
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2007-01-17
Posts: 259

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

Why do you want to copy all data twice over the network? Install rsnapshot in your DNS and use that instead. It works pretty much the same way as time machine.

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#6 2007-11-05 23:02:06

krid
Member
Registered: 2007-10-27
Posts: 19

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

Very nice cybermike. I can't wait till the first backup is finished. Is there any news yet about the reason why apple removed this option?

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#7 2007-11-07 02:53:00

Focher
Member
Registered: 2007-05-23
Posts: 35

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

frodo wrote:

Why do you want to copy all data twice over the network? Install rsnapshot in your DNS and use that instead. It works pretty much the same way as time machine.

The main reason is that you lose the interface and integration for restoring Time Machine backed up data, which is probably the best part of it. However, I doubt it is even possible to do with Time Machine but just figured I would ask.

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#8 2007-11-09 00:53:48

xecode
Member
Registered: 2007-11-08
Posts: 9

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

Maybe this is a stupid question.  What about when I "need" to restore my whole machine using time machine.  If you boot off the Leopard installer there is a mechanism for restoring from a complete time machine, but I am doubting that will work from a network volume. 

I know this unsupported network mount will work for time machine is in, if your mac is operating and you want to get a previous version of a file, then yes you the whole network mount for time machine will work well.

The other thing I heard is that if the network mount that you are using for your Time Machine destination get unmounted or is otherwise not available, you may encounter silent data corruption because of the data not getting flushed out.

-X

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#9 2007-11-09 14:04:46

MrTAToad
Member
Registered: 2007-05-18
Posts: 5

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

I haven't been able to get the TMShowUnsupportedNetworkVolumes 1 working - it still wont find the DNS-323 in Time Machine (although it is, of course, present in Finder)

Scratch that - got it working now.  Had to get Finder to view more than the base share.

Last edited by MrTAToad (2007-11-09 14:09:35)

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#10 2007-11-10 12:05:30

KRH
Member
From: Denmark
Registered: 2006-10-27
Posts: 219
Website

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323


First user to fun_plug the dns-323.

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#11 2007-11-11 05:16:33

Focher
Member
Registered: 2007-05-23
Posts: 35

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

Nice find. That worked for me. I am actually using netatalk to access from my Macs. AFP is much nicer for supporting character sets and extended attributes with Macs.

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#12 2007-12-10 21:49:25

ChrisOwens
Member
Registered: 2007-12-07
Posts: 31

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

Bear in mind that, quite late in the release cycle, Apple disabled Time Machine access to remote drives.

If you are paranoid or even healthily cynical, you might believe that it's because they want to charge you money for the feature somewhere down the road.

But far more likely is that the feature didn't pass QC testing: that there's a stability or security issue.

I am not going to trust my critical data to over-the-network Time Machine until we hear more about why this feature was disabled.

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#13 2007-12-11 06:58:38

Focher
Member
Registered: 2007-05-23
Posts: 35

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

Actually, it's not that Apple disabled the feature because the feature is still there. What they did is to set the default to disable the use of networked storage. Their reasoning is completely unclear. Could be, as you said, a quality / reliability issue. Could be a support issue. Doubtful it is an attempt to charge in the future, considering it's just a parameter change to the system.

As I understand Time Machine, the main technical change that Apple made to enable the feature is by adding symlink functionality for entire directories / subdirectories including the individual files. This allowed the more efficient usage of snapshotting the changes. This seems to be working fine even on networked storage, but you are right that people should understand the risk in using in undocumented / unsupported "feature".

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#14 2007-12-11 07:33:53

ChrisOwens
Member
Registered: 2007-12-07
Posts: 31

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

Focher wrote:

Actually, it's not that Apple disabled the feature because the feature is still there. What they did is to set the default to disable the use of networked storage. Their reasoning is completely unclear. Could be, as you said, a quality / reliability issue. Could be a support issue. Doubtful it is an attempt to charge in the future, considering it's just a parameter change to the system.

As I understand Time Machine, the main technical change that Apple made to enable the feature is by adding symlink functionality for entire directories / subdirectories including the individual files. This allowed the more efficient usage of snapshotting the changes. This seems to be working fine even on networked storage, but you are right that people should understand the risk in using in undocumented / unsupported "feature".

You are right - they did not "disable" the feature, but they turn it off by default, and they provide no normal GUI for turning it back on,  and they don't provide any documentation as to how to use it -- that just has the feel of "not ready for prime time".

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#15 2007-12-11 19:05:17

djaysamsonite
New member
Registered: 2007-12-11
Posts: 3

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

I recently purchased a DNS-323 for the purpose of a RAID 1 backup of my powerbook and macs I will own in the future.
I use an airport extreme connected to a DSL modem. Using the web interface I set up the 323 and was backing up fine. I hooked up an airport express and reconfigured the airport extreme and I no longer know what ip address has been assigned to the DNS-323.

Does anyone know how to find out what ip address has been assigned to the DNS-323?

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#16 2007-12-11 19:42:39

KRH
Member
From: Denmark
Registered: 2006-10-27
Posts: 219
Website

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

check in your airport extreame dhcp client list


First user to fun_plug the dns-323.

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#17 2007-12-11 23:45:30

xecode
Member
Registered: 2007-11-08
Posts: 9

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

Time machine over the network is officially supported by leopard, it was tested and is part of Leopard.  Of course its only to AFP shares. If you mount an AFP share on a leopard machine, and the remote machien is also leopard.  That share will show up in timemachine setup without having to hack the unsupportedvolumes 1.  will AFPD or atalkD suffice? I dont know. and Yes Samba is definately unsupported.

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#18 2007-12-16 20:28:46

patrissimo
New member
Registered: 2007-12-16
Posts: 3

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

I have been told that Time Machine only works properly with HFS+ formatted drives, not FAT32 as the DNS-323 uses.  Have any of y'all tried restoring from backups, or otherwise verified that TM on the DNS-323 actually works?

Thanks.

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#19 2007-12-16 22:47:23

mig
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2006-12-21
Posts: 532

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

patrissimo wrote:

I have been told that Time Machine only works properly with HFS+ formatted drives, not FAT32 as the DNS-323 uses.

The DNS-323 uses the ext2 filesystem.


DNS-323 2x Seagate Barracuda ES 7200.10 ST3250620NS 250GB SATAII (3.0Gb/s) 7200RPM 16MB RAID1 FW1.03 ext2 
Fonz's v0.3 fun_plug http://www.inreto.de/dns323/fun-plug

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#20 2007-12-17 05:16:16

frodo
Member
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2007-01-17
Posts: 259

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

patrissimo wrote:

I have been told that Time Machine only works properly with HFS+ formatted drives, not FAT32 as the DNS-323 uses.  Have any of y'all tried restoring from backups, or otherwise verified that TM on the DNS-323 actually works?

Thanks.

Time Machine creates a disk image on the dns-323. This image is in HFS+.
However as Apple disabled the feature to store on NAS devices your milage may vary...

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#21 2007-12-17 09:14:24

Speijk
Member
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 36

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

I am using the DNS-323 as destination for my timemachine images now for two weeks. I am backing up 3 Mac's to my NAS drive now and It works fine!
The first backup took several hours, but the hourly updates only take a minute or so.

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#22 2007-12-18 23:14:41

ChrisOwens
Member
Registered: 2007-12-07
Posts: 31

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

Speijk wrote:

I am using the DNS-323 as destination for my timemachine images now for two weeks. I am backing up 3 Mac's to my NAS drive now and It works fine!
The first backup took several hours, but the hourly updates only take a minute or so.

I have to ask the obvious question -- have you tested restore yet?

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#23 2007-12-19 09:20:50

Speijk
Member
Registered: 2007-08-27
Posts: 36

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

Yep, I tested the backup. I actually "needed" a restore already sad
Have seen no problems untill now.

I have read that the problems with unreliable writes from timeachine to a networkdisk are mostly related to using an airport as router. This was the main reason that Apple removed support for networkdisks (from what I have read). I use a D-Link router. Until now I have not seen any problems with writing and reading frommy Mac to the DNS-323.
I also now about the issue that the backup image vanishes when the disk is full. I just have to check once in a while that my disk is not full. Maybe Apple finds a solution before my disk is full wink

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#24 2007-12-29 07:01:46

giacomo
New member
Registered: 2007-12-29
Posts: 1

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

I hope this forum can help me.

my setup:
HP pc desktop backing up on DNS-323
Powerbook with Leopard trying to back up with Time machine on DNS-323

the DNS is connect to a Link-sys wireless router.

from the beginning I was able to see the DNS-323 and use Volume_1
then I use http://www.9to5mac.com/time-machine-
and I can see the Volume_1 on Time Machine but when start I have the error :

"The backup disk image could not be created."

I don't know why doesn't start.

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#25 2008-02-04 18:19:05

danb
Member
Registered: 2008-02-04
Posts: 6

Re: MAC OSX Leopard TimeMachine and DNS-323

Has anyone been able to do a full restore form the Leopard Installation DVD?

I tried the Terminal command to mount the samba drive, but I get a 1022 error while trying to do a mount_smbfs command.

I guest that if we can mount the drive and the sparse image, the Restore app will show the NAS drive as a restoring source.

Or is there a way to make a bootable DVD that will enable us to mount that drive and then do a restore?

As for speed, I rarely get more thant 1 Mbyte/s with time machine on the DNS-323.

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